Legion to White House: ‘Gun Order Must Protect Vets Seeking Treatment’

Concerned that the White House’s executive action on gun sales would discourage veterans from seeking treatment for mental illnesses or conditions, the head of The American Legion urged President Obama to ensure that the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding veterans be protected.

“Nobody wants violent criminals or those with extreme mental disorders to have firearms,” American Legion National Commander Dale Barnett said. “ But The American Legion strongly believes that treatment for post-traumatic stress disorder or depression by itself, which a number of wartime veterans experience, should not be the sole factor in denying a veteran the right to purchase a firearm.

“Barring some additional circumstances that would indicate that a veteran represents a dangerous threat, veterans should not have to forfeit their Second Amendment rights. We fear an ‘over fix,’ which would bar any veteran from owning a weapon. That’s what we’re apprehensive about. Veterans have fought to protect the constitutional rights of all Americans. The American Legion believes that the rights of these heroes deserve protection.”

67 Comments

  1. One of the only rights anyone really has is to believe what they choose to believe. That short enough?
  2. What you talk about has already happened to many of our senior citizens whom receive VA benefits. My mother, who at the time was in her late 70's or early 80's had a mental evaluation because she was not taking her medicines appropriately. There was no definite conclusion but the report mentioned that she may be suffering the starts of dementia. At one time she received survivor VA benefits after my dad died but was terminated when she reached medicare age. For those following years her only income was social security. When her health started to go south because of her 'forgetfulness' to take her medications my only option was to have her spend time in a personal care home. Her health became the overwhelming influence to keep her there and she liked it because there were other people around. She had previously lived in a very rural part of PA and her nearest neighbors were about 1/4 mile away and they were of the same age. Since personal care homes are not something that medicare or medicaid would pay for I started investigating other revenue sources. I had talked to a VA rep in her locale and he encouraged me to seek reinstatement of benefits. Long story short is that she was approved for reinstatement of benefits but before the VA would release the money she would need to have a fiduciary to manage her account because in the doctor report sent to VA it mentioned her possible diminished mental capacity. The only way we could get her benefits for the six months it took the system to work for approval was to sign a paper stating she was not able to own or purchase firearms. Now at her age I was not concerned about her owning or purchasing a gun because she was in a personal care home then and now in a nursing home. But, the more I have thought about it, I have really regretted signing that form because it has reduced her rights comparable to a criminal. Because she needed money to stay at the personal care home, I was 'pushed' into trading her constitutional rights to gain her approved benefits. I believe there are many people in her postion out there and I think this should be one of the American Legion's efforts in the future to have these rights restored (unless there are other conditions that would prevent this) to these citizens who have done nothing wrong except to grow old gracefully. I also believe this restoration would help reduce the 'clutter' in the NICS database to those with criminal backgrounds or significant mental health issues and return the dignity of those citizens who have supported this country throughout their lives.
  3. I don't believe your mother has lost her constitutional right to bear arms. She can no longer be safe with the possession of firearms. It is quite simple. You don't give a toddler scissors because it is not safe. We had to remove the guns from my parents household because of dimentia and Alzheimer's. It was the safe thing to do. They took took my mom's license away because it was the safe thing to do. It's not about the Constitution, it is about keeping everyone safe.
  4. Unfortunately everything the current administration is doing to push gun control bypasses HIPPA laws. The VA and SSA should be barred from sharing any medical information with any organization, including law enforcement.
  5. The rights of a Vet seeking help is protected by the HIPA laws. I don't think the National Commander is speaking up enough for the men and women that served to protect our Nations rights. The NRA is trying to stop Obama from gathering a list of all Vets that get mental help. They want to use that list along with S.S. list to ban gun ownership w/o due process.
  6. The NRA is trying to stop me from stubbing my toe because it inhibits your 2nd amendment rights...
  7. My American Legion needs to get out of bed with the gun lobby. Start working on national defense issues and leave the NRA to defend itself.
  8. You need to get out of bed with the Marxist Ideologues who seek to destroy our rights.
  9. The biggest problem is that you have some person/organization deciding who will be subject to losing your right to have a weapon, judged guilty without a trial. This is the same as you getting on the no fly list, presumed guilty by some government persons. Freedom of what ???
  10. The preamble to The American Legion constitution calls upon us to uphold and defend the Constitution of The United States of America. Last time I checked, the 2nd Amendment was still a part of that document.
  11. Yep, still is and still applies despite a president hell bent on not respecting individual rights or the separation of powers with his crazy decrees.
  12. Without the NRA, who would be able to effectively lobby the government to protect our 2nd amendment rights from those who would take away our guns because they don't think we NEED guns. They are already DEMANDING that we explain why we NEED certain kinds of guns. I NEED to be able to purchase any kind of gun I want because I am an American citizen who has fought for that right.
  13. How do we know you are? It seems that those who are suspicious are often so because they know how untrustworthy they are. Besides that it is irrelevant whether one is a vet or not to express their belief in our constitution. You should try it sometime, it may give a warm fuzzy inside for standing up for our nations constitution.
  14. Seems clear that you are not a gun owner , a lover of our constitution , or a team player so why not just tear up you card , vote for hilary , and move to California with the other Non-sequitur's ? You do NOT have to belong to the NRA to cherish our 2nd Amendment guarantees , but you do have to be an American to own a firearm legally in the U.S.A. . We here in the States who are Legion brothers believe in No Man Left Behind ! The Last line in defense of our country is the Patriot with a firearm .
  15. I'm not certain what you mean by "move to California with the other Non-sequitur's" but it sure comes off as intending to be insulting. If so, I do indeed take offense both as a veteran who served to defend the Constitution and as a Californian. It is exactly those kind of crass statements that have divided this country into two distinct and extremely polarized camps. We can ill afford such divisions as veterans if we are to continue to both defend out nation and fight for our collective rights. While I get where you're coming from a tracking another person does nothing to further the discussion. When you disagree, attack the idea without insulting the thinker. That will help to keep us a cohesive group in and of ourselves, not a group of people divided.
  16. As the commenter in question referred to his defense of the constitution as rubbish and insulted him by stating he was not a veteran your call to civility is barking up the wrong tree. I guess he should of said Russia because that would be a much more accurate description of where certain types want to take this country. However California is much further down the road of perdition and because of that they are used as an example of extremism. I do have much sympathy for the citizens who have lost their rights in CA. I would suggest moving to somewhere else like Texas where they still respect the constitution. Of course who would financially support all that nonsense out there then. Oh well they would be further buried in their own mess. By the way, what is California's current deficit? Texas is running a surplus and Cali is in debt up to their ears. Due you find my accurate statements offensive because they ring true?
  17. Defending the constitution and supporting a 100% americanism is one of the pillars of the our Legion. The second amendment is the number one guarantee of that freedom. The American Legion is not working with the gun lobby whatever that is. Ever hear of the CMP? It is the responsibility of every American to be prepared to defend themselves, their families and their nation.
  18. Defending the constitution and supporting a 100% americanism is one of the pillars of the our Legion. The second amendment is the number one guarantee of that freedom. The American Legion is not working with the gun lobby whatever that is. Ever hear of the CMP? It is the responsibility of every American to be prepared to defend themselves, their families and their nation.
  19. I'm very sorry I went to the V A FOR HELP but I was a drunk and done some other things I'm not proud off , but if I had any heads up, about my 2nd amendment can be revoked by the worst commander chief . we ever had because I asked for help 20 years after nam I wonder what the new vets will do ! ! ! !
  20. They will suffer as they fear an over reaching oppressive government than they do their personal issues from serving. Obama has hindered many veterans with his outrageous unconstitutional abuse of power.
  21. I'm very sorry I went to the V A FOR HELP but I was a drunk and done some other things I'm not proud off , but if I had any heads up, about my 2nd amendment can be revoked by the worst commander chief . we ever had because I asked for help 20 years after nam I wonder what the new vets will do ! ! ! !
  22. I'm very sorry I went to the V A FOR HELP but I was a drunk and done some other things I'm not proud off , but if I had any heads up, about my 2nd amendment can be revoked by the worst commander chief . we ever had because I asked for help 20 years after nam I wonder what the new vets will do ! ! ! !
  23. There is nothing in the executive order that discriminates against veterans that seek help with PTSD. There is a distinction between veterans diagnosed/treated for PTSD, and those veterans with PTSD that have also committed criminal acts or displayed violent behavior or tendencies. Unfortunately, many conservative groups, the American Legion included, fail to see a distinction, and use the "defending veterans rights" excuse to oppose any government action that is a contradiction to conservative ideology. This is not about veterans rights, this is about right wing politics.
  24. I am one of them stupid low IQ VET that John Kerry talked about that when to Nam . This started from day one .I would bet you are not a VET. Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano apologized to veterans after a report issued by her department said troops returning from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were at risk for being recruited by right-wing extremists
  25. Veteran's with mental disorder's who have not committed any crime's, and who are in treatment, should be allowed to carry fire arms. And this a problem why? Definition of mental illness is behavior some think is unacceptable; however in the absence of crime's it is not sufficient to deny the right to bear arms. I live in Mass. which has already revoked in full, any semblance of the right to bear Arms unless you are part of an Official Military Force. American legion is right: Mental patients actively seeking help and being treated are not an issue, and it is unconstitutional to deny them weapons. Veterans put their lives on the line for the constitution.
  26. You probably need to check your facts. Up until last June the VA in New York state arbitrarily turned over to local police those Vets who had PTSD to have their weapons confiscated. No due process, no determination as to whether or not the Vet was indeed a threat to themselves or another, just turn over their information to local authorities. This ended when threat of legal class action was initiated. So, yes, "conservative groups failed to see the distinction" and protected the rights of Vets who were seeking help and were no danger to anyone and were not determined to be a danger to anyone by the very Dr.'s who turned their information into local authorities.
  27. Funny, the only information I can find about the VA New York scenario you describe is on Right Wing Conservative websites and blogs, which I will hardly consider as facts, but will keep checking. However, I have heard such things have happened else where, such as in Minnesota. But the whole truth and facts were left out of that too. Like the fact that the dude made threats to VA people, abused his wife, and used a gun in a suicidal threat. The right wing groups used it to headline "Police seize guns from Veteran with PTSD". When the truth finally came out that the dude had a history, they backed down. I have never seen or read that a diagnosis/treatment for PTSD by itself is considered a safety risk that would revoke the right to own a gun. Sometimes, there are PTSD patients with associated symptoms that have a document record of violent behavior and criminal acts that make them a risk. Those are the factors that are relevant, not just being veteran with PTSD.
  28. Question 11.f on ATF form 4473, which must be filled out by anyone purchasing a gun, states: "Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective (which includes a determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that you are a danger to yourself or to others or are incompetent to manage your own affairs) OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution?" I don't think it unreasonable that some folks would interpret a diagnosis of PTSD, or a stay in a VA hospital for PTSD, as meeting this condition. If so then the person would not be able to purchase a firearm.
  29. I see you have become a legal advisor of sorts or sea lawyer to be more accurate. Most people who have PTSD are not incompetent or have been found by a court or lawful authority (adjudicated) to be mentally defective. You stereotype vets as bad as hollyweird and Obama. your use of flawed logic to tie the two together demonstrates a lack of knowledge related to PTSD and the law. Obama is circumventing the law by declaring all Veterans with PTSD as equivalent to being mentally defective and you are supporting this abuse of power and common sense. Keep smoking the wacky tobacky which does prevent you from buying a firearm. Unfortunately it still allows you to vote even if you are inebriated and are not operating with a full deck.
  30. Well said. This is not about veterans' rights but is pandering in its worst form.
  31. It isn't veterans with depression or ptsd problems, or the civilian populations with mental issues that have turned Chicago into the killing fields of young teenage Afro-Americans and Latinos in across this country. A million man march is necessary to help these single mothers with controlling these drug fiends, who have lost all respect for life. Start kicking ass and take these drugs and weapons away from these murderous bastards. The drug cartels are getting a free ride , thanks to this administrations lax border policies and releasing thousands of prisoners. A bag of heroine used to cost $20.00 in the sixties, now the cost is $10.00. This administration has stated that manufacturing jobs are history in this country, so where is the opportunity for the unskilled young generation. Instead this administration is intent on making it harder for businesses to operate here through absurd EPA regulations,etc.
  32. The media started a trend in the 70s where they would report any crime of violence by defining the alleged perpetrator as to be suffering from "manic depression". Now the government and Hollywood have jumped on the bandwagon. Whatever happened to practicing medicine without a license? Media pundits, government officials, actors and other various celebrities have no basis or right to claim that a criminal is mentally ill. I have spent 25 years working with the mentally ill, including people diagnosed with B.A.D. (Bipolar Affective Disorders), P.A.D. (Psycho Affective Disorders), S.A.D. (Schizo Affective Disorders), alcohol and drug addiction. Among all the hundreds of people I had come across and had dealt with, the people who had been involved with a crime of violence I can count on one hand. In fact, I can think of three. This amounts to less than one percent. Obama is relentless in blaming Bush in doing everything wrong, but he has done everything Bush did, from his knee-jerk reactions to his gross mismanagement. This gun executive order is nothing more than another excuse for not letting a good crisis go to waste. It's a knee-jerk reaction to a symptom to a problem the government created.
  33. This is bull. There are too many people with mental problems able to buy guns. Just because you are a disabled veteran does not qualify you to have a gun if you have a mental problem. You should be held to the same restrictions as any other person. Believe it or not there have been instances where veterans have killed their entire families and blamed it on PTSD. I seem to remember where a veteran claimed PTSD and the only action he ever saw was a cook onboard a ship and was never even close to military action. Being a veteran is not a get out of jail free card nor does it give them an automatic right to own a gun without back ground checks.
  34. The 2nd Amendment to the Constitution of The United States of America gives them the Right Steve. "shall not be infringed" !!!!!
  35. You had to be raised before the 1970's. That is when you got swats from the Principal. Mom smacked your face. Dad wooped your butt with a switch and left swollen welts. We didn't have cell phones taken away, sent to our room's, etc.. That's the problem with so many boys today. Parents are to afraid to spank their kid. Better you than a thug beating them up or worse getting shot. We didn't have any drugs issues either. We faced everyday reality and with all my butt woppins I got I love my mom and dad for giving them to me. They prepared me for the world so I could survive as a man on my own. My mom used to say (that world out there is cruel and they don't care about you. But I do love you, so you will learn from me and your dad and grow up to be a man. Every boy should have had a mom like mine. When I was 16 feeling my oats, my mother told me ("this is your two year warning. When you turn 18 and graduate, you are either going away to college or off to the military. I will not have a harry a$$ man laying up in my house.") That was tough love, yes it was. But I loved her most for that talk. That comment alone made me realize, I had two years to make up my mind. I chose the USAF after taking advise from our next door neighbor who was a retired USAF full bird Col. He said go up to Richards Gubar AFB and sign up so you can go from school to boot camp. I have never spent one minute in a jail except when I worked in the Jackson Co. Jail in downtown KC,MO. Drinking to get drunk is not a manly thing to do. When you wake up, your troubles are still waiting for you to deal with but now with a hangover. I can't even stand the smell of booze. I drink water, sweet tea, coffee, milk and fruit juices and that's it. Too many mothers spoil their boys and create monsters for society to deal with. Like my dad used to say, that's why God put so much flesh on your butt. lol. You can bet I Ioved them and have nothing but good memories. I felt they truly loved me. We went to church every Sunday together then ate out for breakfast as a family unit and I am a God fearing man. I am about to turn 65 and not in good health. I know death is around the corner but I am not afraid to die. That's because I was taught to trust in HIM.
  36. This all sounds familiar because I was raised in the 40's when corporal punishment was at its height. The least punishment you could expect from your mom and dad was being locked in your room without supper or your mouth washed out with soap (ugh). The beatings were usually saved for major offenses, like teasing the cat, hosing down the neighbors, etc. What I notice most of all is the difference having a dad has made on my life compared to the many youngsters who grow up now without one, deprived by divorce, which I think is a crime. Also missing is the military influence in the lives of many young men. In my senior year in college I was drafted because I had worked a semester, which I thought was grossly unfair. In looking back, I wouldn't trade the military experiences and service people I met for all the college grads in the world. The military helped me go on to finish college when I got out. Had I been smarter I would've made a career of the military, I hadn't realized its advantages until in hindsight. I'm not saying we should bring back the draft but I think many, many boys would benefit by exposure to the military and the discipline it imposes and the exposure to mature men who can help them grow into manhood and accept its responsibilities. I don't have the answer to the problems raised by this article but I'm thankful to my family and the sensible people I served under in the military who helped keep some of these demons mentioned at bay.
  37. It is a bygone age. I too was brought up that way and what I see now in society is disturbing. About the only balanced views seem to come from the American Legion and despite being a joiner, I intend to renew my membership til I join those folks who know better than the current crop of political misfits. That might not be long as I'm on the downslope of 80 plus.
  38. Correct that to be 'despite NOT being a joiner, I intend to renew my membership til I join those folks who KNEW better than the current crop of political misfits.'....
  39. I suffer from PTSD, Anxiety disorder and Depression. I was not only a medic in Nam but we lost everything we owned in Katrina. Then I lost my wife of 28 years to suicide after Katrina. It was us here in Hancock, County on the MS. Gulf Coast who got the direct hit with a 30 foot storm surge of water over our homes. Katrina's eye came straight through Waveland / Bay St. Louis MS., "now with a monument known as ground zero" from the eye of Katrina. However I own few hand guns and a couple of long guns. I do take my meds every morning and night to be able to sleep without the nightmares. I see my V. A. Psychiatrist (to renew my meds every 6 mo.) and I use a Psychologist "when I feel the need for counseling." However, I NEVER have been turned down by the FBI background check when buying a firearm from a "Federal Firearms Licence dealer" FFL=("legally.") That is because (if you look at the legal form you have to sign and be ran through the FBI database before you purchase a gun,) you will see it reads like this. ("Have you ever been "involuntarily admitted for a mental disorder?") READ the form "if you are buying legal." The key wording here is ("involuntarily admitted (i e) physically forced.) You can still buy a firearm if "you commit yourself" into a psych unit as then you can legally voluntarily sign yourself out. This proves you are aware of your problem and there is nothing wrong with asking for psych counseling. This proves you are cognizant of your disabilities. It is only the ones who are SICK ENOUGH "that they simply don't know how to cope." For me a lot of it is how you were raised. I taught from age 2 on that "I am responsible for me and my own actions." Not my mommy. I know I took my share of butt whoopins from my Father. But I earned every one of them and took them like a man. Some of us can and some of us can't. I have a very strong will. I lost my right leg and can't fire a rifle from the shoulder anymore from having my right arm blown off but re-attached and learned how to use it all over again. But there is little left of my collar bone so the percussion of a high power rifle would shatter my thin collar bone. I may be in a wheelchair but you can bet at home and in my handicap van I am only an arms reach of ,38 or a 357 magnum revolver as I am also retired Law Enforcement. (MS. law states your vehicle is an extension of your home plus we are an open and conceal carry State.)
  40. One anecdote of family violence is not sufficient evidence to strip PTSD or depression victims of their rights. (Sarcasm on) If this were so, then we should incarcerate all these victims until some VA psychiatrist approved their release. God forbid they should be with their families and have the chance to kill them. (Sarcasm off)
  41. Since when does a person need military action to suffer from PTSD? Yes, there have been situations where a veteran suffering from PTSD has committed violent crimes, but why should you support the punishment of an entire population due to the actions of fewer than one-tenth of one percent of that population. You are making several points that have nothing to do with the article, and are responses to things that were not said.
  42. This is bull. There are too many people with mental problems able to buy guns. Just because you are a disabled veteran does not qualify you to have a gun if you have a mental problem. You should be held to the same restrictions as any other person. Believe it or not there have been instances where veterans have killed their entire families and blamed it on PTSD. I seem to remember where a veteran claimed PTSD and the only action he ever saw was a cook onboard a ship and was never even close to military action. Being a veteran is not a get out of jail free card nor does it give them an automatic right to own a gun without back ground checks.
  43. what a wonderful example of the American Legion at work protecting the civil, constitutional, and health rights of our veterans--Way-2-Go!!! American Legion--makes me proud to be a member.
  44. Please read: Here Are The 23 Executive Orders On Gun Safety Signed Today By The President: President Obama has signed 23 executive orders designed to address the problem of gun violence in America. The following are the items addressed: Gun Violence Reduction Executive Actions: 1. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system. 2. Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system. 3. Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system. 4. Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks. 5. Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun. 6. Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers. 7. Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign. 8. Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission). 9. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations. 10. Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make itwidely available to law enforcement. 11. Nominate an ATF director. 12. Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations. 13. Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime. 14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence. 15. Direct the Attorney General to issue a report on the availability and most effectiveuse of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to developinnovative technologies. 16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes. 17. Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities. 18. Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers. 19. Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education. 20. Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover. 21. Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges. 22. Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations. 23. Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health. It does not appear that any of the executive orders would have any impact on the guns people currently own-or would like to purchase- and that all proposals regarding limiting the availability of assault weapons or large ammunition magazines will be proposed for Congressional action. As such, any potential effort to create a constitutional crisis—or the leveling of charges that the White House has overstepped its executive authority—would hold no validity. Rick Ungar , Contributor Forbes
  45. I am a 68 year old African-American, former Marine Sgt., Vietnam Vet. If America is the "Home of the Brave" what is everyone so afraid of ? If we spent as much time trying to love and understand one another as we spend hating we would be "One Nation Indivisible with Liberty and Justice for All."
  46. Please give me a legal definition of an "assault rifle or weapon". Is it in how a rifle/weapon looks or how it works (i.e. full auto, semi auto, etc) ?
  47. Rick, THANK YOU FOR THE "REVELATION". This has been in front of everery one's nose if only they took the time to read rather than "listening" to people who have a bone to pick with President Obama. There is more hatred than rational in our nation. We all wore the same uniform and all of our blood was red. If anyone of our Veterans needs to buy a gun, he will not be prevented. So where is the beef? God Almighty, isn't it time for all to realize we are in 2016 and not 1960's.
  48. I really wish you liberals would keep facts in context. Stop referring to firearms as "automatic weapons". Even paramilitary police departments/SWAT teams are not allowed automatic weapons. Do you even know what an automatic weapon is? If so, show me where an automatic weapon can be purchased aside from the black market.
  49. Maybe people need to experience what being in combat really is. People think cops have it bad but reality is 99% of the time THEY are the only one armed and with power to take liberty. A soldier is in an active fight for life and senses hightened to the extreme for over 1 year, not counting what they must see and do, all in the name of a constitution that many of you seem to enjoy with no cost to you. It is a disgrace to send any person off to fight for everyone else's rights only to come home and see they LOST a right they fought for just because people get so offended and scare so easily. Disgraceful.
  50. Maybe people need to experience what being in combat really is. People think cops have it bad but reality is 99% of the time THEY are the only one armed and with power to take liberty. A soldier is in an active fight for life and senses hightened to the extreme for over 1 year, not counting what they must see and do, all in the name of a constitution that many of you seem to enjoy with no cost to you. It is a disgrace to send any person off to fight for everyone else's rights only to come home and see they LOST a right they fought for just because people get so offended and scare so easily. Disgraceful.
  51. Thank you Commander Barnett for speaking up for the rights of veterans and law abiding American citizens. If the 2nd amendment can be circumvented for political purposes, no amendment granting inalienable rights is safe from the political whims of those who occupy the Executive office. Personally, I dont own a gun but as citizens, our right to own a gun should not be encumbered because of a few mentally ill (if thats really the case) individuals who commit crimes.
  52. Agreed. Obviously, with all the many defects of humanity this country somehow grew to over 320 million people. Even back 150 years ago stupid people did stupid things and good people did good things.
  53. John, it all turns on who has the authority, and under what definitions, one can be declared "mentally ill". As a healthcare professional these executive orders concern me greatly because it removes the barriers of HIPPA that previously existed between healthcare providers and Federal enforcement agencies. There is the possibility under these orders that an individual could be declared "mentally ill" by a healthcare professional without appropriate vetting of that condition and without recourse by the patient themselves. In essence, this gives "carte blance" to healthcare professionals to sponsor the removal of 2nd Amendment rights from individuals with no due process - simply based upon their opinion. Working in healthcare myself, I know many healthcare providers who are adamantly opposed to gun ownership of all kinds and would determine that the mere ownership of a gun is enough to declare that individual "mentally disturbed" - and they'd do it! This is an end run around the Constitution. Giving such authority to healthcare providers is not accommodated by the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. Beware when rights are threatened by government bestowing such powers to "experts" and "professionals".
  54. You are 100% right. watch what you tell your doctor.(Not the ones at the VA) I told my doctor in town , I did not like my health records being on line and he typed it into my records on the new MY Chart. They are going to start asking you and your wife if there is any guns in your house . say I KNOW NOTHING
  55. You obviously haven't seen "Hogan's Heros". Shultz's most common phrase was, "I know nothing". He did not say, "I no nothing", or "I ain't not knowin' nothin'". Cool your jets, my fine feathered troll. lol };^#~
  56. Know your dictionary? Know is knowledge, no is the word you are matching to. It therefore was not a "double negative". ;)
  57. So who and what definition of mentally ill would be used? If people are really worried about life, why isn't a law passed to jail anyone that is 30% over their BMI...fat people cause more deaths, costs society much more than all the guns have caused. No person has the right to be the captain of their little bit then tell other captains how to run their own boat. One other thing, pass a law on stupidity in general, hail all stupid people. But doing so would require a building the size of Rhode Island
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