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July 29, 2010 - 4:36pmPermalink
Naturalization is the responsibility of the Federal government under the Constitution. Securing the borders is the responsibility of the states, according to the original Constitution. That changed in the 1920's and subsequently as increasingly "progressive" judges have managed to interpret the rules. Arizona is not only within its rights, but they have a responsibility to control their borders, with or without Federal help.
July 29, 2010 - 6:31pmPermalink
If a person comes here on a valid visa, when it expires, that person will get a contact from the Feds and must leave, and will be deported if s/he doesn't comply. Furthermore, if the person attempts to collect welfare or health care at public expense, that person's visa will be revoked.
If, however, one sneaks into the country, one is entitled to free education, free health care, free social services indefinately, and with so little fear of getting sent home that, at least here in Arizona, they routinely allow themselves to be publicly identified. What's most amusing is that you must supply your social security number to apply for free meals in our public schools. Unless you claim not to have a social security number because you are illegal. Then your kids will automatically get free lunch.
The howling about racism and profiling is only to obscure that fact that there is no logical reason not do do what Arizona is doing
July 29, 2010 - 7:02pmPermalink
As I titled this, "Immigration is not a topic for the American Legion". The "Choices" are equal to the old Question: Have you stopped beating your wife? There is no good answer to that. This 'Legion Update' by e-mail has articles about Boys Scouts, Secretary Gates addressing scouts, TBI an PTSD issues,VA Staffing etc. These ARE issues that all members of the Legion should be updated on. A discussion on "Immigration" is a legal and political issue that IS NOT in the interest of the Legion. This law has already had a hearing and a judgment has been rendered. It may be a U.S. Supreme Court case but to add it to the Legion mail takes away from the topics we all need to pay attention to.
The American Legion has lead on issues that we veterans need most. It has people in Washington to discuss matters directly with the congress and administration. There is no doubt that the American Legion has helped. Delving into politics is not a good choice. It should do what the Legion does best.
July 29, 2010 - 7:09pmPermalink
The ruling part that put a hold on the Arizona law doesn't even sound like the judge knows what they are talking about. Say that inyour town, a bank is robbed, which is a FBI federal law. All states have their own laws that cover robbery. Do the local police arrest the suspects under the local law or the federal law? Since the judge says local laws can't be used in a case of a federal law, does that mean when a bank is robbed the FBI are the only police agency that can make the arrest? What about the new marriage laws in some of the states? Federal law says a man and a woman. What about medical marajana? and on and on. The BIG question is TAXES. who can empose them?
July 29, 2010 - 7:19pmPermalink
I mean, all we hear from you conservatives is that California and the other states that have medical marijuana laws SHOULDN'T have them, so when will you get your stories straight on this?
Do States have rights - or not? OR IS IT ONLY WHEN YOU REPUBLICANS WANT THEM TO???
July 29, 2010 - 7:25pmPermalink
Then why aren't you jailing the hiring managers and CEOs of companies that hire them???
Oh my - what the HELL am I thinking? Asking Republicans to actually arrest someone from a corporation? That would NEVER happen! My GOD, what was I thinking? The world would come to an end if we actually expected a Republican to demand that a corporation actually adhere to our laws!
Under Bush - investigation and enforcement of employers hiring illegals went down SIXTY PERCENT.
Now - how many of you conservatives have the nerve to explain and defend that???
July 29, 2010 - 7:52pmPermalink
Who gives a crap about what Bush or anybody else did or didn't do, the current occupant is the one who needs his feet held to the fire. What part of illegal don't you understand, and yes, arrest the bosses and throw them in jail along with the illegals, or send both south of the border where they belong.
July 29, 2010 - 8:52pmPermalink
They get a free pass because the politicians want their vote.
July 29, 2010 - 8:55pmPermalink
The Govt. is not doing anything to protect our Borders, thus the States have a sovereign right to create the law(s) needed to protect their respective borders. We have lost National parks to illegals and as American citizens I am told I'm not allowed to visit U.S. Federal Parks along Arizona-Mexican Border. Thatis ludicrous as my Federal Taxes helped pay for those Parks as well as for the Federal Govt. to protect them. They tell us not to go there. Some of the borderlands of my State of Texas are also being infringed on by illegals. "Give them an inch and they'll take a mile". Enough is Enough. Thank You
July 29, 2010 - 9:08pmPermalink
I am glad to see that the American Legion is informing the Veterans on issues that are of grave interest to us Vets. I do believe it to be important that you inform us of all things pertinent to the US, as we who all served in the US Military are generally interested to know if our services were for not. We remember all, as well as many of our buddies, who gave the ultimate sacrifice for Our country to be free. Furthermore, I can only quote "Remember the Alamo". The best is to take the "Nay Sayers" with a grain of salt. Thank You again.
July 29, 2010 - 9:28pmPermalink
Don't take my word for it. Go google for yourself. Everyone who votes for the "federal government is doing nothing" choice is falling for and propagating a BARE FACED LIE.
Hell no states do NOT have the right to impose their own immigration laws. That is a Federal responsibility. Don't take my word for it. Go read the US Constitution.
Arizona DOES have the right to secure their own border, as do the other border states. So why is it that none have positioned their National Guard and other security forces along the border? No, they shouldn't have to, but as far as I know there is nothing stopping them lining up bodies shoulder to shoulder along the border if that is what they chose to do.
Oh, it's blame you want to assign. Ok, start with whatever pack of idiots convinced Reagan it was better to ship illegals back than to toss them in prison. Hint, they're still screaming for ever more tax cuts.
July 30, 2010 - 12:46amPermalink
It takes more than a simple read to see that immigration is a federal responsibility and that the 10th amendment does not apply. In fact, you have to go back to an 1893 Supreme Court Decision: Fong Yue Ting, Wong Quan, and Lee Joe v. the United States (149 U.S. 698(1893)). There is a more recent decision,Truax and the Attorney General of the State of Arizona v. Raich, which was decided by the Supreme Court in 1915 that says the federal government has the power to decide who to let in and who to expel. One could argue that the current Arizona law does not decide who to let in or expel, so Truax does not apply. I am not an attorney, but I don't believe Truax applies to the current law; however, Truax is based partially on Fong et.al. v. the United States. What is interesting about Fong is the fact that it states the federal government has the right to do nothing about illegal aliens in the U.S.
Reagan's method for dealing w/illegals was to make them citizens, not ship them back.
July 29, 2010 - 10:01pmPermalink
Yes, the Feds are responsible for immigration policy. The Feds refuse to follow their own laws and very possibly are refusing to do what the Constitution of the U.S. requires then to do! If the Feds default in their duties it is the duty of the state to fill this void and protect the interests of the citizens and the state. Question? Who is protecting my civil rights against those who are in this counrty illeaglly, receiving free health care, a free public education, and receiving social security without paying one dime into the system? As a combat Veteran from the Viet Nam era I resent my homeland being invaded and my government doing nothing to stop this invasion.
July 29, 2010 - 10:06pmPermalink
No one has made any point as to why this publication has to insert itself into what is a legal and political issue.
Whether it is immigration or health insurance, it's political.
The only politics this organization should concern itself with are issues pertaining to honorably discharged and active-duty military !
July 30, 2010 - 12:56amPermalink
How has this publication inserted itself into what is a legal and political issue? It merely provides a forum for the free exchange of ideas. Why are you against members discussing current events that are important to most Americans? I believe that current events, including immigration, health insurance and the economy are a concern of many honorably discharged and active-duty military. If you don't like the discussion of current events, you don't have to participate or read them; I respect your decision not to do so, but I don't care for your attempt to stop the discussion of events that are important to our nation.
July 29, 2010 - 10:42pmPermalink
I am a new member and I did not join to be subjected to politics that is not about membership. If this continues I will be forced to terminate my membership
July 30, 2010 - 1:01amPermalink
One person's politics is another persons concerns about current events. Perhaps you and CalBoomer (7/29/10, 10:06 p.m.) could form a new organization and post a forum where nobody talks about anything unless it suits your idea of non-political thought.
July 29, 2010 - 11:17pmPermalink
Someone needs to realize that without corporations and CEO's there would be no businesses. Conservatives don't believe in hiring illegals to work for either of the above, but we feel it is done because lots of small businesses cannot afford to hire "union members" who cost too much for them. In this economy businesses are suffering badly and if it continues there will be no rehiring or in lots of cases they will continue to close down, having already layed off lots of employees.
Illegals cost lots of taxpayers money to keep them here and they are "breaking the law"!
July 29, 2010 - 11:26pmPermalink
We have thousands of citizens training with guns to fight the federal government. We have thousands of citizens training with guns in the Appleseed project because they believe that taxes are oppression. We have states rights issues settled with the blood of over a million American soldiers (two of whom are my ancestors) yet today this "states rights" beast raises its head again in the "American Legion".
Well when soldiers lives are on the line because amateurs carrying guns are firing at the army of the government of the people of the United States of America then remember that the American Legion helped those amateurs to play soldier and imagine that our sons and daughters were just another deer to hunt.
Gun runners are organizing these groups and they are no better than the gun runners in the 19th century that put so many American soldiers in harms way. They are the scum of the earth and the American Legion shouldn't support them.
July 30, 2010 - 12:21amPermalink
When will people realize that these are not immigrants. An immigrant is one who has come to this country, legally, for the purpose of gaining citizenship through lawfull means.
Those who enter this country without permission are criminal intruders or illegal Aliens.
This is not an Immigration issue. It is a criminal matter since they are entering in violation of our laws and thus becomes the pervue of all law enforcemment and not just the Federal Government. By passing a Law in Arizona aginst criminal intrusion, the State has defined it's roll of protecting it's borders from unlawfull ingress. We should all back Arizona for it's fortitude in attempting to protect it's citizens.
July 30, 2010 - 1:14amPermalink
Chaplain Lambert, your heart is in the right place; unfortunately, the law is not. I did some research and not only does the federal government have the constitutional power to regulate who is allowed to immigrate to this country, it also has the power not to enforce the removal of illegals.
I was a police officer in Texas in the late 1960's and the U.S. Border Patrol used to pay us $25 for each illegal allien we turned over to them. Can you imagine the heartburn that would cause today given the uproar over the Arizona law. Btw, we did not go out of our way to look for illegals and we didn't disrupt the lives of U.S. citizens of hispanic heritage by checking everyone's papers. Believe it or not, you can tell an illegal from a legal resident most of the time just by talking to them. My fellow officers who were hispanic were especially good at doing so. Did we profile? You could call it that, but we didn't run little old ladies barefoot through x-ray machines.
July 30, 2010 - 11:05amPermalink
Sam, Unfortunately SOMETHING has got to be done. The Harris County Criminal Justice Center processes an estimated 7,000 illegal's that have been arrested for a CRIME per MONTH in the Houston Area ALONE! That does not account for the other jailing systems around us here in Houston.
We also recently (last yr) had a high speed chase of a stolen car (by an illegal man and woman). They lost control and slammed into the back of a pickup being loaded up by one of our Volunteer Firefighters. He lost both legs and has gone through countless surgeries so far.
Those American's that support Obama's desire to assist these illegals because they "just want a job" like Obama said a couple weeks back are WRONG in thinking that way. We aren't giving "them a job", we are "taking away jobs from ourselves"! How can we support them when we are at a High in Unemployment, facing a Double Dip recession and increasing the deficit faster than EVER?!?! Something is bound to fail.
July 30, 2010 - 12:55pmPermalink
I have read nothing in the Arizona law that has to do with establishing or changing the existing federal immigration statutes. Instead this law identifies that state's intent to uphold the federal law and sets forth processes to be used to do so. I do not understand how the federal government can spend tax dollars to curtail a state's ability to uphold federal statutes yet still expect its citizens to continue to support that government. Come on! Give us all a break. Why are we pandering to the Mexican government on these issues?
July 30, 2010 - 1:57pmPermalink
How do you propose to secure our borders, cut the deficit, keep social security and military pensions and still have the lowest tax rate in the industrialized world?
July 30, 2010 - 7:00pmPermalink
Although our tax rate is on the lower end of the range of the (rather socialist) countries of the Eurozone, it isn't even close to the lowest in the developed world.
And here's a good way to pay for defending our borders: quit subsidizing illegal immigration. In Arizona, recent estimates are that almost 10% of our residents are here illegally. They fill our schools, they inundate our child protection services, they clog our courts, particularly the juvenile courts (these are often "anchor babies" and citizens!), they overwhelm our health care services.
One of only 2 full trauma centers in southern Arizona went bust a few years ago, because Federal law requires them to provide services to illegals, but won't help with the cost.
This is a national problem, but only a few states are stuck with the majority of the costs. If Obama's home state, Illinois, had to foot the bill for all these illegals and cut welfare for legals, you can bet he'd be doing something about it.
July 30, 2010 - 2:14pmPermalink
To all of you questioning why the Legion is involved in the immigration issue. Look at the back of your membership card and read the preamble to the Legion’s constitution. I’ve selected those goals I think apply:
To uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America;
To maintain law and order;
To foster and perpetuate a one hundred percent Americanism;
To inculcate a sense of individual obligation to the community, state and nation;
To safeguard and transmit to posterity the principles of justice, freedom and democracy;
That's why we should be involved.....
Rev. David A. May I
July 30, 2010 - 6:03pmPermalink
Ray, by changing the tax code to encourage manufacturing to stay in this country; pulling all troops home from overseas to defend our borders/harbors, etc.; stop providing tax benefits to all illegal aliens; deport all illegals already here; change immigration policy to make sure immigrants come here to be productive people; change Constitution to eliminate the "anchor baby" scam; and finally, lower taxes like Pres Reagan did but also insure House of Reps don't spend all the extra revenue that comes to Treasury after taxes are lowered. Just a few ways to lower the deficit without raising taxes.
July 30, 2010 - 6:24pmPermalink
I agree with you Reverend. It is one of the reasons I just joined the Legion as a new member this month! After reading about the dwindling numbers of our Posts for both the Legion and VFW's I joined thinking that this brotherhood would stand for something American. The TeaParty movement reflects a growing number of Patriots who want the Federal Government to do their job according to the constitution and with sound fiscal responsibility. I believe the Legion should partner with this movement to uphold American values and freedoms. The only side the Legion takes should be what is in the best interest of law abiding Americans. If there are liberals in the ranks, they should consider another organization to join. Conservative Americans are the true Patriots of this country. Politicians just know how to play the game. As for the dwindling numbers of our membership, I understand why there are less people involved. There is no incentive and there is no proactive attempt to recruit Patriots
July 31, 2010 - 11:55amPermalink
Those of us who belong to the legion have earned that priviliage. How dare you even think that those of us who are not bigots like yourself should not belong and defend our points of view. Your implication that even if you fought for the USA you are not a patriot unless you are also a consevative makes me sick. If you want to live in a place with conservitive one party rule move someplace that already has it, Kazakhstan comes to mind.
I live in AZ and know Americans who have been harassed because they are brown. It does not matter to the sheriff's department if you say you are a citizen or if your family has been in this country for generations. If you are brown you will be pulled over.
August 1, 2010 - 12:34pmPermalink
I have seen Tea Party rally speakers openly call for the violet overthrow of the United States. I have heard several conservatives support this scum, openly giving them aid and comfort.
"Law abiding Americans"? "True Patriots"? These lying thieving lowlifes? No! These are traitors, and their deluded followers.
Appears you are well on you way to becoming one of the domestic enemies you once swore to defend this nation against.
Shake off the brainwashing, clean out your ears, open your eyes, and fact check what you hear and read. You'll find yourself opposing the anti-American anti-Christian slime you currently think you support.
July 30, 2010 - 7:41pmPermalink
I believe those who agree with the Arizona immigration law should either: take a refresher course on Constitutional Law or, read the Constitution again.
I believe it is just another partisan tactic for the benefit of votes this November. People are just not investing the time and study and gaining facts as they should be--Ms. Sherrod is a prime example of the most recent knee-jerk reaction.
July 30, 2010 - 9:14pmPermalink
my belief is that whoever wants to work here is to live here, so all laws should be followed just like us citizens have to do. we hear all this crying and battling about racisism, but the truth is something they try and keep hidden all the drug trafic and all bodies found around borders, gang wars. they had the chance years back but look at L A now and other states, we're getting gangs from all of south america and these are really vicious individuals that local law enforcement can't handle because of their armament. so people be realistic, every imigrant should go through legal channels, even imigrants from europe!
July 31, 2010 - 10:43amPermalink
As a safety/environmental professional, I understand that states have the rights to enact more stringent laws than the federal laws, but not more lieninet.
Person to person enforcement is one method. But refusal to hire or house undocumented immigrants will also have a significant impact on illegal immigration. By using "E-Verify" employers can tell within ten minutes if a worker is legal. Sanctions must be taken against those who hire or house illegals.
There is universal consensus to stop crime, drugs, weapons and human trafficing, moving both ways across the border.
There will be an impact on our fresh fruit and vegetables or more will come from South America. With the shortcomings of the FDA, this may not be all bad.
Regardless of the approach taken, undocumented workers who are working, paying taxes and breaking no laws should receive special consieration. Let's send American gang bangers back to Mexico and keep good immigrants here.
Ron Kriel CAPT USN
July 31, 2010 - 11:06amPermalink
To keep the balance sheet satisfied, let's deport one gang banger for each productive, honest, taxpaying undocumented we let stay in this country. We would realize a double gain. Get rid on one bad person, keep one good one.
Next we have to integrate these good workers into the system so that they receive proper wages, pay taxes and FICA; get health insurance and reduce the strain of trying to school their children.
There is nothing more hypocritical than playing the game, "we got here first," so now we are going to make it impossible for you to get into this country. My family came from Germany and Poland. While it was before my time, I doubt they had to climb fences and crawl through tunnels to get here.
There are many U.S. "citizens" who contribute nothing to our economy or society. A "swap" program might be a wakeup call. The Hispanics with whom I have known work very hard and really try to the best job they can. Novel!
Ron Kriel CAPT US
July 31, 2010 - 9:43pmPermalink
Ron,I couldn't agree with you more. Run for political office, I'd vote for ya
July 31, 2010 - 1:56pmPermalink
Like so many American citizens, I feel so frustrated with the current policy on immigration. We all agree that the borders and ports need to be secure. Most agree that employers who knowingly hire illegals should be severely prosecuted, fined and imprisoned. And many feel that most illegals are generally decent, hard-working folks who came for the jobs. Around these three points there should be some consensus for action. But some things need to be defined (such as What constitutes a secure border?), some things need to be required (such as use of E-verify and a national citizen biometric secure ID), and some things take precedence over others (such as phasing in a pathway to citizenship but only after reasonably securing the border). It all needs to start with hearings and a vigorous debate in Congress next year. We don't need quick fixes, but we do need a serious bi-partisan debate that sets definitions and expectations, sequences events, and sets timelines.
July 31, 2010 - 2:32pmPermalink
It strikes me that our Government can send our TROOPS overseas to protect the Sovereignty and borders of another country. Yet it is inept in protecting our own.
We were asked to be vigilant after Sept 11th. WELL BIG OVER SIZED GOVERNMENT WE ARE BEING VIGILANT. NOW DO YOUR JOB.
August 1, 2010 - 4:42amPermalink
Sorry, but this is an open discussion. No one is forcing you to endure all this horrible talk. You and and the other crybaby Art must be in American Legion posts in the San Francisco area that were openly and actively encouraging members of our Armed Forces to desert their posts and refuse to fight the war on terrorism this last year.
Immigration affects us all as does health care because veterans are also being affected by both disasters. Healthcare facilities are closing left and right, which affects veterans healthcare choices. Not everyone lives near a VA hospital, so smaller facilities are contracted to help, but if they have to close because of the tremendous cost of dolling out free healthcare to illegals, what do the veterans do?
If you weren't so deluded by your blue tinted views, you might see how veterans really see things.
August 1, 2010 - 10:57amPermalink
The founders of the American Legion carefully considered the consequences of embroiling the organization in the political process. Based on the model of the Grand Army of the Republic (G.A.R.), which played partisan politics and backed political candidates, the founders ensured the National Constitution of The American Legion prohibited such practices:
Section 2. THE AMERICAN LEGION shall be absolutely nonpolitical and shall not be used for the dissemination of partisan principles nor for the promotion of the candidacy of any person seeking public office or preferment.
August 1, 2010 - 1:03pmPermalink
Illegal Immigration by a few hundred people is a problem. By over 12 million people it is nothing short of invasion and colinization. Mexico relies on the vast amounts of money sent back from America (the plunder of our nations wealth). The American left however, supports this type of behavior and loves to freely use the word biggot to anyone who believes the United States is a sovereign and independent nation and wants the borders secured. These are the same people who call the U.S. an imperialist nation and criticize America as a nation who removes other nation's resources. The vast amount of immigration to the U.S. from Mexico supported by the Mexican government in order for their citizens to ship back our wealth to Mexico's coffers is imperialism. This behavior is supported by anti-American leftist organizations such as most of the media, the ACLU, many of our teachers, lawyers, and college professors who have hijacked our institutions and our nation.
August 2, 2010 - 11:45amPermalink
The Constitution and the BIll of Rights were both written in English.
Bring our men and women home and secure our own borders. If we have our military here on U.S. soil, we would be better able to keep out illegal aliens and terrorists.
August 2, 2010 - 9:32pmPermalink
While constitution limits inacting immigration laws to federal authority, states can and should ENFORCE existing laws. Asking person's status, detaining illegals and informing proper federal officials for them to take custody does NOT violate constitution; such actions support national legal system. Survey question and answers poorly address issue; and is easily open to misinterpretation of results.
The 10th amendment has been badly abused, by Presidents, Congress, and Supreme Court.
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