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What do you think of the Marine Corps order to remove Confederate-related paraphernalia from all the service's bases?



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If we are going to remove anything Confederate related in the Corps, are we going to rename all the Army forts named for Confederate Generals (Bragg, Benning, Hood, AP Hill, Picket, Lee, Jackson, and Polk) and rename the Naval vessels named after confederates? Remember most were USA officers before joining the Confederacy. If we expand this approach and say we will remove anything associated with slavery, then we need to remove the Washington, Jefferson, and Monroe monuments as they all were slave owners. Virginia probably should shut down Jamestown, since slaves first were used there to keep the colony alive. We have a hard enough time learning from history, now we want to just erase history !! Remember those who do not learn from history are doomed to relive it. I do agree with those who feel it is odd that Confederate names show up everywhere since the Confederacy was defeated. But to try to make these adjustments 150 years after the fact seems even more odd.

Submitted by jklillard : Feb 27, 2020 4:24pm

I think that this whole"politically correct" deal is retarded. I too am against slavery, but our history needs to be preserved. For it is through history that all mankind can make a better future.

Submitted by pop_crochet : Feb 28, 2020 7:05am

You are totally correct! In the recent past, George Orwell's book "1984" was mandatory reading; how little did we know that his book was a true story! Just because you don't agree with what occurred in the past doesn't give ANYONE the right to rewrite history! Those who choose to ignore history (or rewrite it) are condemned to relive it! Currently it's acceptable to tear down, remove, destroy or hide what is it not PC? How soon before we destroy Mt. Rushmore, or Washington's memorial in D.C, because it doesn't align with the radical liberals ideals of being "politically correct"? These mental midgets already onto eliminating anything related to Columbus and native American statues; where does it end? The time for "political correctness" is over, what is needed is understanding and TEACHING the values of this great country, not selfish self interests!

Submitted by breachplug : Feb 28, 2020 9:41am

If this keeps up we won't have a history. The civil war is part of American History just as the other wars. As a student of history we must remember there were other reasons we were in a civil war: the unfair tariff on cotton that hurt the south and the fact Lincoln did not want the union to separate. Here in Atlanta it has been a war against anything that was confederate.

Submitted by lewlin57 : Feb 28, 2020 3:54pm

Darn right all these bases need to be renamed! This is all about traitors who violated their oath and waged war against the United States of America. Last time I looked, Washington, Jefferson, and Monroe, never waged war against America. I don't think any of these bases were named 150 years ago.

Submitted by jalonzo : Mar 1, 2020 10:34am

So, are we to remove our nation's history? There was a Confederate War here. Or are we just going to sweep it away? And pretend it never existed.

Submitted by OpFly99 : Feb 27, 2020 4:32pm

Why would you think displaying the confederate rag or having a statue of one of the traitorious confederates in any way promotes anything but racial division and perpetuates the yack-a-billy notion that their ancestors did any kind of an "honorable" thing by being traitors to the United States of America over SLAVERY ?

Submitted by Patrick McNamara : Feb 27, 2020 4:55pm

Sir, you let your total ignorance of our nations history speak volumes for you. Obviously the product of the public schools.

Submitted by Mark Sullivan : Feb 27, 2020 7:25pm

There isn't enough space to write a reply regarding your narrow minded prejudices. Opinions of people like you are the reason we are against "political correctness" (just another word for "lies"). I never owned a slave, killed an American Native, or related to Columbus, however, they all had something to contribute to the development of this great nation; for that, right, wrong or indifferent, they had a more positive effect than all the "very little" people like you will ever have.

Submitted by breachplug : Feb 28, 2020 9:49am

Agree with jklillard and OpFly99. If there some concern about racism, etc, it would be more appropriate to install a plaque explaining the paraphernalia and why it is important to our history. Most of the Confederate soldiers fought for their state, not for slavery.

Submitted by michaelf : Feb 27, 2020 4:44pm

Very well said jklillard. We can change names, not teach our history in schools and re-write the text, but we can never change the history. It seems to disagree in todays world makes each of us a racist, a bigot, extremist. Is there not end to political correctness?

Submitted by chapyone : Feb 27, 2020 4:45pm

Do we also take the history of USMC from its founding through to the end of the War Between the States and remove that too?

Submitted by Nblakebartlett : Feb 27, 2020 4:50pm

This part of the problem of senior officers becoming politically correct. There is a constant attempt to rewrite our history and it must stop.

John Sabene

Submitted by sabenej : Feb 27, 2020 4:58pm

The point that I don't see being made by anyone is that whether individual soldiers were specifically supporting slavery or not, the armies were. Worse than that, they were bearing arms against the United States of America. Those men among them who had been in the U.S. military prior to the secessions were also in direct violation of the oath we all took to defend the Constitution and obey the orders of the President of the U.S. I don't look at that as behavior deserving of memorials or statues or forts being named after them.

Submitted by gayspiritwarrio... : Feb 27, 2020 5:23pm

You have let your total ignorance of our nations history speak volumes here.

Submitted by Mark Sullivan : Feb 27, 2020 7:27pm

I was a Captain in the Army and am now a Major in the Air Force. I would be proud to have any Marine that I worked for or that worked for me and I could care less about whether they supported CSA or the Union as long as they supported American. This is a Political Correctness issue that no one should ever ask a Marine about.

Submitted by ralphlangham : Feb 27, 2020 5:27pm

If you remove reminders of our past, good or bad, you remove the ability to learn from that past. History should be the best tool to use when we try to teach people how to make the best choice when electing people to represent us at the local, State and national level. Confederate monuments should be kept in place not to glorify the fight by the Confederacy to keep slaves, but to point out how wrong it was and, how right the Union was to fight to free the slaves.

Submitted by : Feb 27, 2020 5:33pm

Do not allow racists into the military.

Submitted by daleal63 : Feb 27, 2020 5:37pm

And how will you keep them out of the military. The military is a cross section of the nation and we cannot control what people feel. Sad, sad comment.

Submitted by Mark Sullivan : Feb 27, 2020 7:28pm

I am very disappointed in the Corps! The confederates were AMERICANS fighting for their country as they saw it...and to dishonor that is plain old ordinary BULLSHYT! I am not convinced that America might have been better off if the south HAD WON?

Submitted by desert : Feb 27, 2020 6:05pm

It seems some people like to rally around the concept anything Confederate related was slave related. In fact, it was the economics of slavery and political control of that system that was central to the Civil War. If we make that part of our history fade away and forgotten. Least we not forget a quote long ago. “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” If we eliminate that part of our history from our bases is that going to make us a better person? To hide our past. It's been 150 years and some have a problem with it now? I wonder how many people who is complaining has not even served our country.

Submitted by Rombo1 : Feb 27, 2020 6:16pm

It’s not up to the Military to erase our history. All Confederate soldiers have been officially declared veterans of the US. This is wrong on many levels

Submitted by sjwandt : Feb 27, 2020 6:43pm

Many/most of the confederate monuments were erected during the Civil Rights Era to intimidate African Americans and enforce Jim Crow laws. Call a spade a spade ladies and gentlemen. They were not erected to honor history but boy that's a good cover story. The South, By Definition, were traitors to the USA and the Civil War was fought by the South to protect the Institution of Slavery and the South has been propagandizing ever since to deny that (which is continuing to today).

Submitted by lawss107 : Feb 27, 2020 6:55pm

Your ignorance of our nations history is unbelievably sad.

Submitted by Mark Sullivan : Feb 27, 2020 7:29pm

Let's see, when were the "Jim Crow" laws written? Then let's ask wouldn't it make sense that any tribute/memorial be built following the war? Oh, that's the same, humm. Go back and see who wrote those laws. I challenge your statement that these were traitors in that they were defending their "States Rights" by definition. And by the way, by definition, are you aware of the meaning in referencing a "spade"? Be careful.....

Submitted by lowriethomas : Feb 27, 2020 7:45pm

according to the great Forrest Gump "Stupid is as stupid does."

Submitted by bobbettegreen : Feb 27, 2020 7:16pm

The level of ignorance of our nations history and it foundational principles is beyond belief. The product of state run schools and a limited reading.

Submitted by Mark Sullivan : Feb 27, 2020 7:31pm

I find it hard to believe that all black people are so thin skinned that a flag or statute would offend them. History can not be rewritten by taking down the flag or statutes.

Submitted by robertdmiller45... : Feb 27, 2020 7:38pm

All black people are not thin-skinned, but most are offended by the tired arguments attributed to the so-called honorable cause. The south lost period.

Submitted by rodney196 : Feb 27, 2020 8:07pm

Our history good, bad or indifferent is our history. We learn from the good and try to repeat and expand this, the bad we learn what we did wrong and try to never make that mistake again, and indifferent we should also learn to never make any similar event anything less than great. I read that if we don't remember and learn from our mistakes we are doomed to keep repeating them again and again. Not to long ago I recall all confederate veterans are now considered American Veterans. Leave well enough alone it is OUR HISTORY!!!

Submitted by hwykoff : Feb 27, 2020 7:54pm

Some may find it distasteful but it is American history. For the record, the fight was NOT over slavery, but states rights. Those who fought for the Confederacy, were men of honor serving their homes. And, no, I am not from the South.

Submitted by tkedwards5 : Feb 27, 2020 8:26pm

There is a great amount of history that will be lost with some of those icons. Taking away history does not stop racism. Education stop racism.

Submitted by tomrobinson2015... : Feb 27, 2020 9:05pm

There is too much "political correctness" attempting to change or delete history, no matter how painful or ugly it may be to some. We can only learn from the past, and not repeat what we don't like.

Submitted by cj4bus : Feb 27, 2020 11:49pm

There is too much "political correctness" attempting to change or delete history, no matter how painful or ugly it may be to some. We can only learn from the past, and not repeat what we don't like.

Submitted by cj4bus : Feb 27, 2020 11:49pm

Perhaps it is different today?
When I signed up it wasn't to serve the Republicans or the Democrats, the south or the north, the white or the black community. I signed up to serve my country, America.
I didn't sign up to have a vote on how the armed services are organized or how things were administered, I signed up to ensure the rights of all Americans to vote on how the country, my country, is run and by whom.
Last time I checked, the Marine Corps were signing up men and women who were American citizens and turning them into Marines. The Marines I have known are bot whiny little children wanting their own way.
But, maybe that has changed over time. My half-brother was a Marine. He served in WWII and Korea. I was not a Marine, but I signed up in 1961 and signed out in 1971. Yeah, I guess a lot can change over time....

Submitted by williamshoo1944... : Feb 28, 2020 8:30am

Should read "not whiny little children"

Submitted by williamshoo1944... : Feb 28, 2020 8:34am

The so-called American Civil War was anything but civil. That being said, the original impetus was the thought that states had the right to withdraw and be autonomous. The deciding issue concerning slavery did not really become a factor until The Emancipation Proclamation almost two years into the war itself. There were slaves on both sides of the Mason-Dixon line. General Ulysses Grant and his family owned more slaves at the end of the conflict than did General Robert E. Lee. The war originally was about states rights - a Constitutional issue that has never really been settled.

Submitted by jordandd : Feb 28, 2020 9:12am

The question I have is this - Who gave the Marines permission to remove or cover up the history of the United States? Any and all historic monuments, no matter who placed them, are a part of our history and should be preserved for all time. Next you'll be wanting to exhume the unknown soldier to determine if he/she was from the North or the South. Come on people - It's our history and n o matter what you do it can not be erased.

Submitted by litewalker : Feb 28, 2020 9:34am

Most would agree it would be stupid and counter productive to rename everything named after a confederate or tear down anything in which slaves might have helped build. However, there is a difference between those things and current people who maintain their open support of those whose fought to maintain slavery. That demonstrates an attitude which cannot and should not be endorsed by the Marine Corps.

Submitted by jsmella : Feb 28, 2020 9:55am

It's a part of our history...get over it!

Submitted by johnhendrick999... : Feb 28, 2020 10:17am

It's ridiculous! It's not something to be ignored or erased. Part of our history to be represented and explained.

Submitted by boobearone : Feb 28, 2020 10:31am

Come on people stop this foolishness of tearing down monuments, renaming streets,squares, talking reparations etc. this is all part of our history and has made us to date the greatest country in the world. This all part of the so called "social correctness" society and the fear that someone may be traumatized by past history. We all should grow up and smell the roses.

Submitted by wmahar : Feb 28, 2020 12:05pm

My grandfather was a slave in his own country,that is why he moved to the United States.That being said,we haven't had slaves here for over two hundred years.We learned and we changed,and we are constantly changing.But to eliminate history as it was is not the way,I dont see anyone worshipping at statutes or flags so why remove our history instead of learning from it and remembering from it and move on.

Submitted by woodsterry4 : Feb 28, 2020 12:05pm

There are a lot of good and a lot of defensive remarks here. In my case, I don't want to see history ignored here either. Leave the history told through the statues, the bases, and other named tributes. Most of the confederate officers served honorably, even if not politically so.
Where I see a problem, is the confederate flag. We are a nation that places great pride and respect on our well earned 'Stars and Stripes' While the confederate flag has a place in our history, it is a place of dishonor, and should not be allowed to be honored in public places, especially our military installations. It's history should be one of shame as it would be of any other enemy, defeated or otherwise. If we can do that, why not an NVA flag, N.Korean flag, Castro Cuban flag, or even a Nazi Swastika flag, (although I suspect many of the Confederate flag folks would not have a problem with that one either especially since they both seem to be popular in the South.) (no disrespect intended to our brothers in the South who don't share those opinions.)
My point is I have no problem with history and OUR military people that served on both sides. They should be honored, but not a dishonored flag of an enemy that sponsored the needless loss of so many AMERICANS on both sides.

Submitted by traveler2721946... : Feb 28, 2020 12:13pm

This is a copy of a comment that says it all:
If we are going to remove anything Confederate related in the Corps, are we going to rename all the Army forts named for Confederate Generals (Bragg, Benning, Hood, AP Hill, Picket, Lee, Jackson, and Polk) and rename the Naval vessels named after confederates? Remember most were USA officers before joining the Confederacy. If we expand this approach and say we will remove anything associated with slavery, then we need to remove the Washington, Jefferson, and Monroe monuments as they all were slave owners. Virginia probably should shut down Jamestown, since slaves first were used there to keep the colony alive. We have a hard enough time learning from history, now we want to just erase history !! Remember those who do not learn from history are doomed to relive it. I do agree with those who feel it is odd that Confederate names show up everywhere since the Confederacy was defeated. But to try to make these adjustments 150 years after the fact seems even more odd.

Submitted by lbauer3649 : Feb 28, 2020 12:34pm

I think destroying our historical monuments is dangerous. These monuments to our history are important. If we obliterate that part of our history, are we not then doomed to repeat it? The people of that time were behaving in the manner acceptable to that era. Just because we denounce that type of behavior now, doesn’t mean we need to wipe it from our history. We hav a history of prohibition too, yet we still talk about how that didn’t work and why. It wasn’t that long ago that women fought for the right to vote. We still speak of that in our history too. Susan B. Anthony was even put on our dollar coins. No one is trying to obliterate that from our history. Honestly, I’m a bit tired of the racist attempts to obliterate that part of our history. Yes, it’s racist. It’s geared towards one particular race. I honestly think the removal of confederate paraphernalia is abhorrent.

Submitted by petesmom : Feb 28, 2020 12:37pm

What are we trying to do? Rewrite history or erase history? Either one is wrong. I think we should stand up to these few individuals who want to PC everything. Grow a pair!
CSM C. B. Kirby
U.S. Army, retired

Submitted by kirbysf : Feb 28, 2020 6:32pm

It's the wrong thing to do. It is nothing more than agitprop from the socialist Deep State to stir up hate and discontent in the USA and it should be summarily ignored.

Submitted by brasspounder.wk... : Feb 28, 2020 11:41pm

Until we get more guidance it is a wait and see.

Is it just the Marines affected or is it all personnel on Base including the civilians Some of these people were born in the south and it is just southern pride and even have their vehicle painted with these symbols and all it means is we're from the south; but, Americans first!

Submitted by nrobisonii : Feb 29, 2020 4:11pm


Submitted by michael : Mar 1, 2020 11:01am

Marines don't need participation trophies.

Submitted by michael : Mar 1, 2020 11:03am

I like the idea of plaques to explain the demonstrative items. A museum has all types of controversial exhibits, and it works quite well. If a group is unable to articulate a meaningful, respectful explanation in which we all learn or benefit from; then that particular piece can't be of much value. The value of knowing of country's history is paramount to keeping this Republic intact, safe and ever more striving to reach new goals of a UNITED STATES of AMERICA!

Submitted by putney.bobby : Mar 2, 2020 11:35am

Renaming forts, removing monuments, are stupid and ridiculous ideas. All of the Generals, such as Robert E. Lee and others, returned to their native states to defend their homelands. Slavery existed before any of them were born and therefore it was a way of life they grew up with. The actual beginnings of the "war between the states" was just that: There were and still are arguments among constitutional scholars as to whether states that joined the Union could also withdraw from the union. The Emancipation Proclamation was not issued or signed by President Lincoln until January 1, 1863 just as the nation was entering the third year of the conflict and ironically, there is a strong constitutional argument that President Lincoln did not have the authority to issue such an order because it dealt with the disposition of private property, i.e. slaves plus it divided into two groups those who could own slaves and those who could not. Robert E. Lee was the head of the U.S. Army, resigned his commission and moved back to Virginia to defend his homeland. General U.S. Grant, ultimate head of the Union Army, kept slaves right up until the end of the armed conflict, erroneously named or referred to as The American Civil War. In the classic sense, it was definitely not civil and not a civil war. It was a war between two groups of States. To blur the details of history is to deny it. And some southerners refer to it as the "War of Northern Aggression" because they, the southerners, sincerely believed they had the right of secession. Slavery was definitely wrong, but it wasn't the main issue of what we now call The American Civil War.

Submitted by jordandd : Mar 5, 2020 4:17pm

May I suggest that anyone who believes that slavery was not the main issue in the Civil War read the declarations of secession of the various states, the confederate constitution and the famous speech of Confederate Vice Pres. Stevens. The Cornerstone Speech is so called because Stephens used the word "cornerstone" to describe the "great truth" of white supremacy and black subordination upon which secession and confederation were based: "(I]ts foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery—subordination to the superior race—is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth." While history is normally said to be written by the winner, that was not the case with the Civil War. Initially northern troops went home and back to work while southerners rationalized the war and defended their position with the Myth of the Lost Cause. The South believed in States Rights as long as it suited them. However, they wanted and got the fugitive slave act which took away the rights of northern states to deal with runaways as they saw fit. It could even have northern citizens put in jail for aiding a runaway. The south even attempted, before the war, to interfere with at least one New England election. The U.S. is a democracy but no military service is. Anything that would embarrass, intimidate or harass a marine or soldier should be prohibited. Germany doesn't allow the use of swastikas or Nazi monuments but they are not trying to rewrite their history. History should be well taught and in museums but, frankly, the losers shouldn't have monuments on the lawns of public court houses and parks that basically insult a large portion of their population and African Americans shouldn't have to pay for the upkeep with their tax dollars. Monuments should be on battlefields or in a cemetery where they can tell the full story and / or honor the participants. It appears that I had relatives on both sides but that cannot change the truth of the matter.

Submitted by j.r.gavin : Mar 12, 2020 11:04am

Removing any type of historical object is desecrating the very events that formed this AMERICA! History means events of the past no matter what side you were on or where you came from! I would gladly pick up my battle gear to fight for LEAVING OUR HISTORY ALONE.

Submitted by jsp97837 : Mar 26, 2020 5:27pm

With all respect, and I have great respect for everyone who has fought for this country, I must disagree with the last writer. If we carry that argument to its ultimate conclusion, Germany would have to continue to look at monuments to Hitler and the Nazis. The people of Iraq would have to see monuments to Sadam and Russians would have to look at statues of Stalin. After the first reading of the Declaration of Independence in New York in 1776, The people there toppled a very nice equestrian status of King George III. Was that a desecration? As I said before, there is a place for these statues and monuments, but they should not be located in front of a Court House or State House where they insult and possibly intimidate a large portion of the population.

Submitted by j.r.gavin : Mar 28, 2020 10:03am

There are currently seven former Marines in my generation, two of which served in Vietnam, and one who gave the Marines 27 years. I only served nine years (followed by 12 in the Air Force). Five of those Marines are direct descendants of a Confederate soldier wounded in action defending his home in Tennessee in 1862. His father fought in the War of 1812. His father was a Regulator in North Carolina fighting British oppression in 1771. My point - our family has served this country in every war ever fought. In my humble opinion, any Marine whose self-respect and esprit de corps is so weak as to be offended by a carved piece of rock or a colored piece of cloth does not deserve the title. Semper Fidelis. -- Dr. Daniel L. Nation, Major USAF (Ret.); SSGT USMC

Submitted by daniel_nation : Apr 24, 2020 7:54pm

The point to consider is that we, as service men and women swore an oath to defend our constitution and our freedom as citizens of this great nation. The same principal applied in the past. History has already been made and established as to the main contributing factors that have made us who we are today as one great nation. Nobody that is living in the current generation has anything to do with the mistakes of our past, nor the great accomplishments from that era. We are all forced to face the facts and be thankful for the fact that progress has been made. We still have a long way to go to arrive at a place where we all realize that we are Americans and we need to come together as one great nation. Peace and tranquility will never exist if we can't learn to accept the past for what it was, good, bad, or indifferent. Racism will only continue to exist for as long as we allow hatred and ignorance to be a part of our lives. It's time to open our eyes and see ourselves for who we are. Only then will we be able to unite and become who we need to be, "one nation, under God, Indivisible..."


Submitted by patrick.mcneill... : Jun 4, 2020 2:17pm